Be a Lamp, Not a Mirror

[00:00:03.10] SPEAKER: Welcome to Corwin's Teacher to Teacher podcast, with host Carol Pelletier Radford. Carol is an experienced classroom teacher and university educator, founder of mentoring in action.com, and author of four bestselling professional books for teachers. She believes the best form of professional learning happens when teachers engage in authentic conversations and share their wisdom.

[00:00:23.99] In every episode, Carol and her guests share stories about pivotal moments in their careers, successful classroom strategies, and personal actions they take to minimize stress and stay healthy. The Teacher to Teacher podcast is a place to engage in authentic conversation and reflection with experienced educators. We hope these conversations will energize you, keep you inspired, and remind you why you chose to become a teacher.

[00:00:49.12] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Welcome to season 3 of the Teacher to Teacher podcast. I am your host, Carol Pelletier Radford, and I'm happy to be part of this conversation, with two very experienced educators that you will thoroughly enjoy. The theme for season 3 is based on the book that I wrote, titled Teaching with Light, 10 Lessons for Finding Wisdom, Balance, and Inspiration.

[00:01:15.80] Each of the 10 episodes for this season mirror the 10 lessons in the book. So today's episode is lesson 3, Be a Lamp, Not a Mirror. And let's begin the conversation by having our guests introduce themselves to all of you. Welcome, Maegan and Kathryn. Kathryn, introduce yourself, and tell me, currently, what your role is in education, and what did you teach when you were teaching?

[00:01:50.50] KATHRYN SHUPE: Hello. I'm Kathryn Shupe, and I'm currently a new teacher support coordinator in Charlotte, North Carolina, and I have been working with new teachers for the past six years. When I was a classroom teacher, I taught kindergarten first, second, and third grade. First grade was my favorite grade to teach because I love seeing kids learn how to read.

[00:02:18.34] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Magic-- big magic.

[00:02:20.60] KATHRYN SHUPE: Yes. And Maegan, welcome.

[00:02:24.61] MAEGAN GIROUX: Hi. Yeah, so my name is Maegan Giroux, and I am a-- I guess, first, I am from Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada, and I am a half-time math teacher and half-time instructional coach, I guess, is what you guys would call that down in the states. And so my math coaching or my math teaching is I'm teaching kindergarten, and I'm grade six and seven.

[00:02:53.67] So I do a split grade six seven and then do a kindergarten. And then for my instructional coaching, I support teachers K to 8 with numeracy and literacy. I have to be here.

[00:03:04.58] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow, you have a wide variety of experience, and you're both working in the mentoring/coaching as well. We never know when we make these matches, how our two guests, teacher to teacher, going to intersect? So this is perfect. Here's the question that I have for both of you.

[00:03:24.93] The be a lamp, not a mirror, that is a phrase that I have used in my book and in my life, where I have mirrored back, sometimes, negative people's reactions instead of looking to my own light to be a little more positive. So it means that to me. But I noticed, as I share it, that it means slightly different things to different people. So Kathryn, share what you think that phrase means, and then share a little story or a pivotal moment that relates to that.

[00:04:07.85] KATHRYN SHUPE: Yeah so for me, being a lamp really means shining light into others and being that light that others can see, just to help guide them and to help lead and keep them going through education. A pivotal moment for me was over the past four to five years in my role, I've mentored and supported a lot of teachers.

[00:04:37.42] But there came a time in my life where grief hits, and I lost my dad. And there was a lot of-- a lot of things happened. And so I had to really shift my work of what I was doing to reignite my light, because my light was becoming dim. And so I turn to my beginning teachers that I support to reignite my light and to really fill me up.

[00:05:11.33] And so one teacher, in particular, her name is Vanessa. And Vanessa is a first grade teacher, and she was teaching in a high poverty school, and her students were all below grade level. But walking into her classroom, it was a ray of sunshine. And I began to visit her class more than once a week, because I needed it. I needed her more than she knew.

[00:05:40.01] And that reflection of her light and love just filled my heart with joy and allowed me to then share that back with everyone else. So Vanessa was really my pivotal person that just kept me going and allowed me to really shine bright.

[00:06:01.20] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I see. What you're saying is so important. Because as mentors and coaches and instructional leaders, I think people look to us to always have the answer so that they don't always see us as being vulnerable in our own roles and being uncertain as to what to do next. We may have a little bit more experience, but we have life. Life happens to us, the same way it happens to everyone.

[00:06:29.76] And I think I appreciate your story, Kathryn, because it's important for us to articulate this on this podcast, in Teacher to Teacher that no one really is failing. We're trying to stay inspired and keep that light, so we can share it. And it's so interesting to have the novice teacher ignite you, and I love that. What did you think about that, Maegan, that story? Does it resonate with you, before you share your story?

[00:07:05.11] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah. I would say that, that actually resonates quite a bit. Because I think that one of the things, when you talk about being a lamp, not a mirror, is finding the lamps in the unexpected places, right? And so I find that when I consider my version of being a lamp, not a mirror, it has a lot to do with the fact that the mirrors are usually people who are, maybe, not comfortable in owning up their own light, like Kathryn's novice teacher, right? So they would be used to being a mirror versus being their own lamp, which is how I would also resonate with that as well.

[00:07:44.53] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah, what's your story? What can you share about feeling that way or noticing either your light dimming or that you couldn't find it or-- how'd you spark it up, Maegan?

[00:08:01.06] MAEGAN GIROUX: Well, yeah. So I guess, I would say the first way that I look at it is probably from my students, because I think that when we talk about being a mirror, I think our students are often being told to be mirrors. We just tell them things, and then they just bounce back and mimic or regurgitate back exactly what we just said.

[00:08:24.14] And they, oftentimes, don't have their own light. Well, they do, but we don't always allow them, and myself included, don't always allow them a chance to shine bright. And so I think that-- especially my school. My school has about 85% of my students were not born in Canada. So they are very used to being a marginalized community where they don't shine their light.

[00:08:46.97] And so for me, I think just the ways in which I've shifted my teaching, which I will talk about more later, has really been able to have my students be the light instead of the mirrors. And for myself, I think I have to credit Peter Liljedahl for allowing me to become a lamp myself. Because I've been spreading his great news for a few years and lots of people's great stuff for so long.

[00:09:13.80] But he's really-- since co-authoring the book, he's put me into the lamp position. And even a few months ago, we were in Kingston, Ontario. And Peter, who is very well known within the mathematics community, wanted-- some girl wanted a picture with me. And so, then, he took that photo, which was so funny. I am usually his like lackey.

[00:09:40.23] And then he was like, yeah, like I'm-- yeah. And then Peter was super supportive. And so that's been nice as a younger woman in this math and space to be more comfortable sharing my light instead of reflecting other people's light.

[00:09:55.97] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. Thank you. Congratulations. That is so awesome. And co-authoring also has a shared light, because you're sparking each other and that creativity. Kathryn, what'd you think of that story?

[00:10:12.50] KATHRYN SHUPE: I love it. Yeah. Yes, totally. I mean, I love that thinking about being a ramp and just really finding those people who have that bright, shining light, that you can just naturally go to. And people are naturally drawn to you because they see the light in you.

[00:10:33.27] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes. And I was thinking, as you were talking, Maegan, about the student teachers in that mirror angle. They, sometimes, just want to copy what the mentor teacher is doing. And they have to find their own way, like within a pedagogical framework, of course, to express themselves. And I've worked with a lot of student teachers, and all of you have beginning teachers, worked with them.

[00:11:02.99] And sometimes, they would just say, how did you do that? They want to mirror back. And with some mirroring or mimicking or whatever we want to call it, within our parameter is OK, I guess, when we're teaching teachers how to hand out materials for apps or whatever. But then I always go back to-- they have to find their own way to say it.

[00:11:31.13] They can't just mimic back. So I appreciate Maegan, though, that you talked about the students. And let's continue that a little bit with some more detail of your book, your co-authoring of your book, and what it's about. Why does everybody want to read this book? And yeah, we'll dig in a little bit and get some practical ideas that even maybe non-math teachers could use, right? All right, let's hear it.

[00:12:04.67] MAEGAN GIROUX: The name of it is Mathematics Tasks for the Thinking Classroom K to 5, which is more specific, and just looks through mathematics tasks through a elementary lens, which I think is important as somebody who has spent a lot of time in that elementary area. Because I think that-- I think that the high school math gets all of the credit. And I just think foundational years are so important.

[00:12:32.87] However, I do also know, because my friends and colleagues are literacy, they also have so much to focus on for literacy. And oftentimes, we just don't have the time to focus on math. So this book is the follow up book from his bestselling mathematics book, Building Thinking Classrooms K to 12, where Peter puts into words these 14 practices that are the most optimal for student thinking that is in mathematics, but I think beyond.

[00:13:05.91] And then what this new book does is the first part is just looking at all of the updated research because his original book came out in 2020. And four years is four years, which is a long time in math ed. And so the first part is just looking through what has changed, what has been updated. And then part 2 and 3 are tasks. The first part 2 is 20 non-curricular tasks. And then 3 part three is 30 curricular tasks.

[00:13:41.35] But then, part 4, I think, is where the really beautiful part comes. Because part 4 is all about how to make your own tasks. But also, they want to know how to make their own tasks, and then how to build capacity. So part 4 is all about how to build your own tasks, and then how to take a great idea and then put it into practice. So a few of Peter's practices are using rich tasks which are deeper tasks.

[00:14:08.67] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All right, what's a task? Give me a task. Give me a good task. Give me a medium task.

[00:14:15.48] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah.

[00:14:18.22] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Example, what's a task?

[00:14:20.52] MAEGAN GIROUX: I am having a dinner party this weekend. Can you guys be my party planners? And they're like, yeah, for sure, because K to 5 kids are excited about literally everything.

[00:14:28.56] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes.

[00:14:29.37] MAEGAN GIROUX: And then you say something along the lines of, OK, well, there are 12 people coming. How could I arrange the tables, if these things are in place, which is that, on every table is full and that every table has the same number of seats. And then they go, and then they all try out different things.

[00:14:51.33] And some kids draw, some kids use multiplication, some kids use repeated addition, some kids skip count. And it's just these divergent rich tasks which just allow the kids to build conceptual understanding of the math, deepens their learning, while also allowing them to be a light of the mathematics, right?

[00:15:11.80] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes. Yes. They are creating. So their creativity.

[00:15:15.87] MAEGAN GIROUX: They are creating. They are sharing their light. So that would be one example. But, yeah. But on Peter's framework, which is phenomenal, is all about these 14 practices, which also include working on vertical non-permanent surfaces, which are whiteboards or windows, stuff like that. And then having frequently visibly random groups, which is really scary for some teachers to make random groups.

[00:15:41.98] It's really, really, really important. And that is all outlined in the original orange book. However, this book really just gives practical things to do from, literally, a launch-- from a launch script, all the way down to, how would you consolidate everyone's learning? How would you bring it all together in the end to formalize it?

[00:16:05.82] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Love it, love it.

[00:16:07.05] MAEGAN GIROUX: It's really, really step by step so that, hopefully, by the end, everybody can walk away and just have a good understanding of how to build their own thinking classroom.

[00:16:15.43] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And it's just great pedagogy. So what's different about this, these problems, tasks, whatever. There's no right way to do it. The students get to generate that creative problem solving, and you're mapping out for the teachers a variety of ways, so they don't have to think of the task right away, if they don't want to.

[00:16:39.53] You're giving that. I think that relates a bit to your work with beginning teachers, too, Kathryn. How do we take the big ideas from this very specific math k-12 book and apply it to your situation as a coach? Does it connect at all?

[00:17:00.77] KATHRYN SHUPE: It does. It definitely does. I mean, when we think about tasks and about giving people their autonomy to choose their strategy and to choose how they're going to solve, right? So it really lends into the work that I've done, as far as more on the social emotional side. So as Maegan's really focused on content-based things into skill development, my work has been around a lot of that social-emotional and wellness side of things to help people balance out.

[00:17:35.13] Because over the past few years, really, my awareness has been folks just need a holistic approach to education. And so I have-- after I've received Carol's book, Teaching with Light, a couple of years ago and started reading these lessons, I really began to infuse them into the professional development I was creating.

[00:17:58.72] And so there's one training that we created this year. It was called the Joy Factor. And in the Joy Factor, we took an intentional approach to the why-- to coming back to your why. What is your why of being a teacher, and really focusing in on teacher wellness. And within that session, the big ideas were mindfulness, gratitude, and reflection.

[00:18:28.83] And the teachers were able to write a thank you note and show gratitude to their mentors. They were able to really take some reflection and reflect onto where they were, where they're starting, and where they want to go, and just really come into like a zen space. And as I think about being a lamp versus a mirror, this allowed them to shine their light as educators and as new teachers to give back to others.

[00:19:02.94] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you. Thanks for that. I think, Maegan, I think when I heard you talk about the random groups as one of the frameworks, I want to dig into that a little bit more. Because it seems so easy. And yet, teachers are afraid of it a little bit, but it relates to what Kat's talking about the social and emotional piece.

[00:19:32.11] Because, then, when the students see the teacher not playing favorites or intentionally putting so-and-so with so-and-so or however teachers intentionally do things, I don't know. What do you think about how does that relate to social wellness with the kids? Just the random group one. What's the research say, and what is your feeling as a teacher-coach about that one framework?

[00:20:06.68] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah. So when Peter and his crew were originally doing the research, which was done over 15 years, with about 400 plus teachers and 400-plus classrooms, and what had happened was that they found that there was two most-- there was two dominant ways to make pairings or groupings within math and just them overall.

[00:20:30.33] And that was teacher-selected or self-selected. Teacher-selected is more found in the K to 5, where it's like, well, Timmy's a meklau, so I can put him with Susie will keep him on track. And then the self-selected, that happened more in the middle years to upper high school which is just partner up, find three people, whatever.

[00:20:51.99] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Right. Right.

[00:20:54.66] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah. And then what they actually found was that both ways didn't stop students from thinking. Because whether the teacher selected or whether they selected, they knew their role in the group, and that was likely not to think. So then one person would do everything, and then everybody else would do all of those different things. Yeah. And then, when they-- and I can't quite remember the exact percentage.

[00:21:24.46] But when they like asked kids at the beginning, it was like significantly less than 50% of kids were not willing to provide an idea, even though they thought it might lead to a correct solution. But then after about two to three weeks of frequently, visibly random groups, I think it was up to like 90% or 100% of students were like willing to provide an idea, even though most of them thought it might not lead to a solution. So students were just willing to participate.

[00:22:04.09] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Participate. Yep, yep.

[00:22:05.85] MAEGAN GIROUX: However, even more than that, with the social emotional, is the lack of empathy went way up in the classrooms. And also, social barriers got stopped because the problem is that when we group these kids from the teachers or from them, they just tend to uphold those social barriers, right?

[00:22:28.48] And then people stay with you. But I'm always having them random is really important, and that's super important for just like students to learn and to learn together and then to be more comfortable with one another. So yeah, it's huge for the social-emotional learning, for sure.

[00:22:45.19] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow, we'll see how that led to something else, just by Kat talking about the joy factor and digging into that. The other thing I just want to mention-- I don't know if anybody's heard of it-- when I was-- I taught fifth grade as well, all the subjects. And it was called a sociogram.

[00:23:03.42] And you can search it out, but it was a way in which I could see who students would choose. Like you said, sometimes there are choices about students want to work with somebody. But I wanted to know why. Why do you want to work with so-and-so? For my own information. It wasn't public.

[00:23:26.65] But I think this idea of grouping and what students think and who they think are the smart kids and where do they-- certain kids wanted-- they would say, I want to sit with Maegan because she knows math. And if I get in her group, I'm going to do better. But by doing that, then they minimize their own--

[00:23:50.96] MAEGAN GIROUX: Light.

[00:23:51.86] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Light, creativity, problem solving, because they just give it away. They're just going to let the other person decide. But I'm going to get a good grade because I'm going to be with Maegan. Kathryn, I could be with you, too, only if it was literacy, though. No. Kidding. So what did you-- what about random-- do we ever do random groupings with the mentors and novice teachers? Do we just say, we let them choose. See, I don't know. How does that fit for you, the grouping?

[00:24:28.29] KATHRYN SHUPE: I think it's fun to do just random groupings. When we have large groups, we do a lot of random groupings and allow them to choose because they learn from each other. They can they have that commonality that they're beginning teachers, right?

[00:24:46.76] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: But if their choosing is not random, tell me what-- I want to know what random means, Maegan. So if I have everybody stand up and say choose a partner, they choose it. Is that not random, or do I have to put everybody's name in a hat and pick two random people? Tell me.

[00:25:05.91] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah. So for me, when I'm doing a task, I bring everybody over to a whiteboard, and I talk to them for five minutes. And usually, less than five. And then right after I give them the task, I have a deck of cards. And so that's the part about the invisibly random. And this is where teacher struggle is, unfortunately, kids-- and this is unfortunate, too, but kids don't believe random is random. Because they've seen random. And I put--

[00:25:39.66] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Will the teacher really put you two together. Right, right, right.

[00:25:43.77] MAEGAN GIROUX: So for instance, seating plans, yeah, sure, like random. It's been like it's random.

[00:25:49.92] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK.

[00:25:51.15] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah. And so, then, for them, this actually needs to be random.

[00:25:54.66] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So the deck of cards is, I got half-handed out. The other one, you hand it out. OK. Let's try that, Kathryn, when we do some PD workshops so that it's completely, completely random. So it's invisible. Yeah, right, oh, gosh. Look who got together.

[00:26:16.05] MAEGAN GIROUX: Every time, the first time, clearly, we'll go together.

[00:26:20.23] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes.

[00:26:20.43] MAEGAN GIROUX: And you're like, it's OK. I can do anything.

[00:26:22.58] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Got to do it again. Because you have to join all the time.

[00:26:26.26] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yes, every single time, like frequently, right?

[00:26:28.35] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Frequently.

[00:26:29.14] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah, frequently, visibly random group.

[00:26:29.43] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And as you said-- frequently. What's the second word?

[00:26:34.51] MAEGAN GIROUX: Visibly.

[00:26:35.54] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Visibly. They have to see it. They don't choose the person. OK, all right. Kathryn, I think we're going to think about how.

[00:26:43.96] KATHRYN SHUPE: Yeah, I love that idea. And this is what I love about teachers and educators is we've learned so much from each other.

[00:26:50.89] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And there we are, teacher to teacher. So we're going to wind down the podcast. I have three shorter questions, great discussion. Inspiration. All right, we did talk about Kathryn needing to fill her lamp. And so how do you fill it when there's not a Vanessa around to go into her classroom and get inspired by what she's doing with her students? What do what do you do to stay inspired?

[00:27:21.44] KATHRYN SHUPE: Yeah. For me, it's really all about connecting with nature. I'm a yoga teacher, but whenever I can practice yoga and really just connect with my inner light and share, I just love exercising, nature walks, walking my dog, anything that really just helps me to be outside to get the natural light.

[00:27:49.13] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah, I love that.

[00:27:49.94] KATHRYN SHUPE: It fills my lamp up.

[00:27:51.60] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that.

[00:27:52.01] KATHRYN SHUPE: And I also love-- I also love just reading inspirational quotes and poems. There's one poem that comes to mind, and it's the "Road Not Taken" by Robert Frost, and it's just reminds me of just how powerful the journey of life be.

[00:28:09.80] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: That poem, I memorized like in seventh grade.

[00:28:12.69] Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,

[00:28:15.23] And sorry I could not travel both

[00:28:18.41] And be one traveler, long I stood

[00:28:21.00] And looked down one as far as I could

[00:28:23.55] To where I bent in the undergrowth.

[00:28:25.92] But it's the path that we take and the decisions that we make to be mirrors or lamps or whatever. But that intention. I love Robert Frost. What about you, Maegan? What inspires you?

[00:28:39.83] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah. So I think that it's probably my family. So I have two boys. They're 16 and six, and they just finished grade 11 and grade 1, which is pretty fun. And it's different.

[00:28:52.85] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Very different.

[00:28:54.32] MAEGAN GIROUX: Very different. Well, yes. But you know what, sometimes, really, it's the same, Carol, honestly.

[00:28:59.33] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Really, the first grader and the-- yeah, exactly.

[00:29:02.87] MAEGAN GIROUX: Sometimes, I like struggle getting them to shower. You know what I mean?

[00:29:06.23] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, same stuff.

[00:29:08.27] MAEGAN GIROUX: Yeah. But, yeah. But I think to just wind down and to relax, I just like to spend time with them. So we like to go to the farm. And then my three boys will dirt bike, and I'll just watch them. Or then, we will go fishing. And then I'll just be at the lake. And so I just like-- just spending time with them.

[00:29:29.36] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Just be. Be with them.

[00:29:30.89] MAEGAN GIROUX: Be near them. Because you know, as someone who has to leave a fair amount-- so I am gone quite a bit, so just having that support. And then when I come back and then just being able to be around them fills my bucket. And then for a quote or a poem, I really like "Our Greatest Fear" by Marianne Williamson, which is really perfect for this podcast.

[00:29:53.70] Because this talks a lot about how our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our greatest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. And then I think it says it is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us, which, I think, is so true for so many people.

[00:30:13.72] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah.

[00:30:14.11] MAEGAN GIROUX: We are so afraid to dim somebody else when we're trying to shine, and that's something that I'm working through.

[00:30:21.10] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes.

[00:30:23.13] MAEGAN GIROUX: But it is a good-- yeah, that's a good inspirational thing.

[00:30:26.37] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: It is inspirational. So one of the things that I do is I like to do yoga with my hands. They call mudras-- hand mudras, and the mudra that I have set aside, that's in the description of this podcast for all the listeners, it's a 1-minute mudra that will show you how to make something called vajra mudra, which is mudra of the diamond, to help us shine our lights.

[00:30:52.78] So I hope that all of you will take advantage of practicing vajra mudra. So what's changing? What's changing in education? People will say, the students are changing, the teachers are changing, the teachers are leaving. The teachers are-- there's so much going on. But I like this little prompt that I've used from time to time from Richard Elmore.

[00:31:19.31] And he has in his book of the same title-- I Used to Think, and Now I Think. So I'm going to ask each of you to fill in the blank. So, Maegan, I used to think about math, and now what do you think about math? Because you're a math teacher. Or it could be coaching or whatever. What do you want to share?

[00:31:40.75] MAEGAN GIROUX: I guess I used to think that the students learning had a lot to do with me and what I was doing. But now I think that it is much more about them and what they're doing and then just providing them opportunities to do what they need to do.

[00:32:00.83] And so one of the things I've been thinking about a lot lately is in terms of the mathematics, the gradual release of responsibility, which is the I do. We do. You do. That all centers the teacher. I do. We do. You do. But we should really be more even centering the way we talk around the students, not around the teachers themselves. So that's how I'm trying to shift.

[00:32:24.27] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. I love that. And that sounds like that's what your book's message is about.

[00:32:30.42] MAEGAN GIROUX: Hopefully.

[00:32:31.22] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes, it is. It is. Stand in your light. And Kathryn, I used to think, and now I think.

[00:32:39.83] KATHRYN SHUPE: Yeah. So I used to think teaching was all about having the best calendar, the best checklist, the best-- like just being so compliant, right? I couldn't wait till August came around, and I could go find the best planner and calendar. And to me, that was so important.

[00:32:58.89] But now I know it's way more than that, and it's so much more about human connection and relationships and, really, how are we affecting teachers and shining light on to students. Because at the end of the day, it's the kids that matter. And I love that for me and my role, I am still connected to kids in the classroom. And it's so nice to just be able to have that human touch.

[00:33:34.82] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. And we're going to end on a positive note for the Teacher to Teacher podcast, inspired by John Krasinski's COVID show, which was called, SGN, Some Good News. So let's end with some good news for each of you. Kathryn, what's some good news?

[00:33:58.54] KATHRYN SHUPE: Well, some good news that I have is that this world of education is desperately needing ways to connect with others. And we have developed such a positive culture with an intentional focus on networking and mentorship and just really cross cultures, cross district, cross states, just having groups and opportunities with different modalities to stay connected.

[00:34:30.62] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And that's what we're doing here on Teacher to Teacher. It's an intentional teacher conversation, with teachers that can connect with each other virtually. I love this. And Maegan, what are you celebrating? What's some good news?

[00:34:46.45] MAEGAN GIROUX: Well, so this is the end of the school year for us, so I think that what I'd like to celebrate is just there's so many teachers this year who had decided to change things up or do things differently. And just at this point, we have just been able to see the fruits of their labor throughout the whole year, based on decisions they made in September.

[00:35:11.16] They just worked so hard. So this one teacher, there was a girl who was had a really tough year last year, and she wasn't sure how she was going to deal with it. And then we all said, well, why don't you just try to kill her with kindness? And then she did. And then because of that, she had the best year ever.

[00:35:30.29] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love it.

[00:35:31.00] MAEGAN GIROUX: Past few years, which is amazing to see those things in September.

[00:35:34.95] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes. So September, you start the routine, and you just keep doing it all year long. And the end of the year, wow, when you look back. That's a great celebration. Well, thank you both for being part of this wonderful conversation. I learned a lot. I hope you did, too. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to the Teacher to Teacher podcast.

[00:36:04.08] Let me just remind you all, stay inspired, stay healthy, and don't forget to share the good news. And thank you, Maegan and Katherine, for making time. And I hope everyone can join me on the next episode, which will be lesson 4, which is titled Face the Sun, and the Shadows Will Fall Behind You. So thanks, everyone, for listening. Bye.

[00:36:31.47] SPEAKER: Thanks, everyone, for joining today's Teacher to Teacher conversation. We hope this time together energized you, inspired you, and reminded you why you chose to become a teacher. You can purchase any of Carol's books and any books mentioned in the podcast online at www.corwin.com. Please leave a review and share this podcast with your colleagues. Thank you for listening to the Corwin Teacher to Teacher podcast, a place to share teacher wisdom and engage in authentic conversations with experienced educators.