Follow Your Heart

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[00:00:03.10] INSTRUCTOR: Welcome to Corwin's Teacher to Teacher podcast with host Carol Pelletier Radford. Carol is an experienced classroom teacher, university educator, founder of mentoringinaction.com, and author of four best selling professional books for teachers. She believes the best form of professional learning happens when teachers engage in authentic conversations and share their wisdom.

[00:00:23.99] In every episode, Carol and her guests share stories about pivotal moments in their careers, successful classroom strategies, and personal actions they take to minimize stress and stay healthy. The Teacher to Teacher podcast is a place to engage in authentic conversation and reflection with experienced educators. We hope these conversations will energize you, keep you inspired, and remind you why you chose to become a teacher.

[00:00:49.47] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Welcome to season three of the Teacher to Teacher podcast. I am your host, Carol Pelletier Radford. And I'm happy to be part of a conversation with two experienced educators. The theme for season three is based on the book I wrote titled Teaching With Light, 10 Lessons for Finding, Wisdom, Balance and Inspiration. Each of the 10 episodes for this season mirror the 10 lessons in the book. Today's episode is titled lesson one, Follow Your Heart.

[00:01:25.29] And we have two extraordinary educator guests with us. I'm going to have them introduce themselves to all of you. So Meg, share who you are, what you're currently doing, and what your role is, and what you taught when you were teaching.

[00:01:43.23] MEG ROA: Hi, Carol. Thank you so much for having me on today. It's such an honor to be here with you and to meet our other guests, Brett. I am in my 32nd year of education and Volusia County schools, which is in Florida, near Daytona beach. And I've had lots of different experiences.

[00:02:01.00] I started out in elementary where I taught kindergarten and second grade. And then when I received my master's in reading, I moved up to middle school and spent a little time there as a reading resource teacher like before coaching was a thing.

[00:02:15.97] And then I moved to the high school level where I taught ELA and intensive reading and made the jump to the district after-- I don't know-- 13 years at high school. And there I did-- I worked in the professional learning office. And where I currently reside is in the recruitment, support, and retention office overseeing the new teacher program.

[00:02:38.59] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So you don't have any experience at all in education, right?

[00:02:43.03] MEG ROA: No.

[00:02:43.68] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I feel like you're like a one woman show. You have all of this background. Welcome, welcome. And I have met Meg in person and collaborated with her teachers and mentors. And you are extraordinary. Just your energy and the ideas that you're bringing forward which we'll talk a little bit about are amazing. And Brett, please introduce yourself and your experiences as a teacher currently teaching.

[00:03:13.47] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Hi yeah, I'm Brett Vogelsinger. Thanks for having me here today, Carol. I am a teacher in a public high school in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, which is suburban Philadelphia region. I teach 10th grade English, AP Lit with seniors, and creative writing. So I'm happy to be here to talk about all things learning.

[00:03:31.85] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All things learning. And we're going to talk a little bit about poetry and how it inspires you and how you use that with your students. So thank you for writing a book about that, that we can all learn from you. And I love that you're in the classroom using it. So thank you.

[00:03:50.15] So before we dive into this is the launch of the season, the lesson one. But I want to ask you, when you heard the title Teaching With Light, I know why I titled the book that way, but I'm curious to see or hear what you think of that title. Brett, what came up for you when you were like, oh, the theme for the year is Teaching With Light, what does that mean?

[00:04:17.29] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Yeah, when I hear that title, it makes me think of teaching with hope and with a sense of endurance in the face of difficult times, maybe systemically or personally going through difficult times and keeping that hope alive.

[00:04:30.85] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And we do need that. And when I wrote the book, I was writing it before COVID and finished it during COVID. And we all know we needed hope during that time. And it is a book more about wellbeing and the whole teacher and all the all the things we need. But Meg, what did you think when you heard teaching with light? How does that resonate with you?

[00:04:54.61] MEG ROA: Yeah, I connected it to the word passion that when you find your passion in teaching, which is really what most educators get into it, get into education for that, we continuously remind yourself about your passion. Share it, collaborate with others, because that's how we continue to grow and spread the light of education.

[00:05:17.03] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you. So the 10 lessons in this season three podcast will have different guests and different authors. Teacher to Teacher, two teachers talking to each other who've never met each other before, talking through these lessons.

[00:05:32.27] And let's begin with the first one that I wrote for the book with my heart leading the way. So what does following your heart mean? And I want each of you to share like a pivotal moment in your career that comes to mind that relates to you having to make a decision to follow your heart and not just do what you think? I should just do this like, that your heart had some play in that, Meg, let's just keep going with you. What is your story?

[00:06:10.44] MEG ROA: OK. I really thought about when I moved. I made the decision to move from the classroom to the district level. I had that opportunity a couple of times and did not do it. But when I finally did, I went into the professional learning office. And to be honest, I really thought I knew what I was going to be doing. But I had no clue.

[00:06:35.22] It was like I thought I got to present to people. I thought I got-- there were so much more to it. And what I kind of reflected on when I was thinking about this question is I one day in the office, I was eating a Dove chocolate bar, and I opened it up and they had the messages on there. And I'm a quote girl. And the quote in the dove chocolate bar said, "Don't settle for a spark, light a fire instead."

[00:07:00.96] And that-- I know. It like literally just resonated with me. And I still have it tacked up on my board. But what it made me think about in my role in the professional learning office was how do I change the feeling that teachers have around professional learning. How can I provide some innovative ways that that teachers like want to come? And to be honest, it's about highlighting their voice. Like, what are some teacher-led, teacher-driven opportunities that we can provide? Because those are the folks that we learn best from. If you're in there doing the work, let's learn from one another.

[00:07:38.75] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Right. So you coming from the classroom probably sat through, I call them sit and get. Like you sit and you just get whatever the person saying or you don't get it. And teachers are doing all kinds of other things and professional learning is I have to do it.

[00:08:01.09] So your pivot is what I'm hearing you say is you decided to actually design professional learning the way teachers would be engaged?

[00:08:14.81] MEG ROA: Right. Yeah.

[00:08:16.57] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: But because you're a teacher in the classroom and this is what we want to do with students too. Brett, what do you think about this kind of follow your heart intuition story? Does that resonate with you and professional learning?

[00:08:31.03] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I can tell you, Meg, that the most popular professional learning experiences in our district are exactly what you described. Those days where teachers get to choose which other teachers and subjects they're learning from. And we often have-- it's not quite as loose as an edcamp. It's more planned than that. But it's got the idea of teachers standing up and saying, hey, I'm a pro at this and I can share it. And other people choosing who they want to learn from and how they want to learn.

[00:08:56.48] People love that. And take those lessons back and apply them. That's the other thing I've noticed. They really use each other.

[00:09:03.13] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And so it really relates to the issue of teachers leaving the classroom because you have to leave the classroom to be a district leader. But what I really love about your story is you had a wealth of experience as a teacher. And you're taking that to the level.

[00:09:21.92] So it's not a bad thing for teachers to leave the classroom if they're staying in education and influencing the mindset of the district to actually shift and pivot that whole professional learning experience for 100 of teachers. I know your district is quite large, so that they're more engaged. I applaud you.

[00:09:42.74] And I want-- I mean, the listeners, if you follow your heart, is leading you out of the classroom, it might not be a bad thing if it relates to a greater good or greater vision and influence over many more teachers, retention issues. I know you're going to talk more about induction and mentor training because that's what you're doing more of now, but thank you for sharing that story. It's really important. All right, Brett, what have you got? What's your pivotal-- where are your pivots? Where did you follow your heart?

[00:10:14.78] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I really liked how Meg talked about how following your heart can lead you to take on a change. And so I've been in the classroom my entire career going into my 22nd year this year. There's been pivotal moments where I've made a change in grade level, most recently this past year in the school building. So I've spent 10 years in eighth grade, 10 years in ninth grade, both in the same seven through nine building. And now I've moved on to 10 and 12.

[00:10:40.16] And I love that that's giving me a whole scope on a range, not quite the range Meg has of a kindergarten all the way up, but giving me a range of experiences as a teacher that's so rich. And I think it keeps me engaged and interested in what I'm doing too. But there's one change. When I moved from eighth grade to ninth grade, from my 10th to 11th year of teaching, I made the decision to incorporate a routine that I wanted to do from the start.

[00:11:04.01] I learned about it. In college. I came across Billy Collins and his work with poetry 180. Yeah, I wanted to start each class period with a poem and had never had the guts or wherewithal to do it. And when I changed it, everything had to be sort of from scratch again in a new grade level. I thought, this is the time, and that has revolutionized the way I teach just about everything.

[00:11:28.83] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow. Wow.

[00:11:30.02] BRETT VOGELSINGER: So I'm really excited in how that turned into more than just starting class with the poem, and so much deeper than that now.

[00:11:35.71] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So what's the kids, the students reactions when you-- do remember when you first did it. When you that first day and you said, OK, we're going to read a poem? Like what did-- and do you remember which one it was? And what did they say?

[00:11:51.37] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I do remember which one it was. It's still the same one. I still start with the same one. OK It changes every year. The scope of-- The starting one is Invitation by Shel Silverstein. [INAUDIBLE] might know from elementary school. The idea that it's saying come in, come in, come sit by my fire.

[00:12:10.04] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, I have goosebumps. one of

[00:12:12.81] BRETT VOGELSINGER: The first questions I ask about that is what do you notice now about this poem as a high school student that you don't think you would have noticed in third grade or fourth grade.

[00:12:21.31] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes, oh, wow.

[00:12:23.49] BRETT VOGELSINGER: [INAUDIBLE] to get us started. But in terms of reaction, oh yeah, there's plenty that are like, oh boy. Some of them hide it, some of them don't. But they're plenty who the reaction is like a little bit of an eye roll, but I win most of them over. I'm not going to say every single one.

[00:12:39.45] I will say that every single one finds a poem or two that's special to them over the course of the semester. And many find that the routine itself is something they look forward to each day.

[00:12:50.76] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow. Parker Palmer, I had the privilege of being in one of his courage to teach and renew retreats that he led, and he used poems throughout the whole retreat. And we as adults, and I was with leaders from different universities, he had us unpack the words. And what does this word mean to you when it's here? I was-- I never forgot the experience.

[00:13:23.90] Poetry just hits you or me, all of us in a different place. It does relate to the heart. It's heart centered. Meg, what's your reaction to this story and this courage that it took to follow his heart and do something totally different?

[00:13:45.41] MEG ROA: He won me over. I want to be in your class.

[00:13:47.74] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All right. We want to be in your class, Brett.

[00:13:50.29] MEG ROA: No, I just love it. I love it. It just makes me think of when I was getting my master's at one of my most favorite professors was Janet Allen. And as adults, like we were in Saturday classes, she would read to us like she would because she wanted us to know young adult literature. And so we couldn't wait to get to class because of that. And just the sense of community, like we all talk about that still. And I'm thinking just those routines, and like you said, the eye roll and everything, I'm sure that happens. But deep down, they loved that routine and the exposure. And the things they'll talk about beyond your classroom.

[00:14:29.05] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So I want you to both think about how this can be integrated into our adult engagement with the beginning teacher presentations that you're doing in the professional learning. And how do you think this transfers to adult professional learning? Reading a poem at the start of a meeting, or I've heard principals do it at faculty meetings. And I did it with Parker Palmer in this trust circle. Brett, what's your experience with that?

[00:15:02.86] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Yeah, I think you got-- I mean, if you get eyerolls from teenagers, you won't get them maybe from adults, but figuratively you will. I think you need to sort of sneak it in without making fanfare about it and just say, ah, this poem speaks to what we're talking about here. Let's take a look at this spoken word poem and see how that relates to the ideas that are on the table at the moment.

[00:15:26.53] I think you have to be a little bit coy about it, but I think that can be done with adults. When I do professional learning with adults, now, granted, they're often English teachers. So it's a partial audience. When I do professional learning with adults, many leave with poems that they want to keep for themselves that aren't just to share with children.

[00:15:47.36] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: I love that. Meg, I can see you doing that with your novice teachers maybe, or everybody bringing it. Thank you for sharing these moments and your and who you are as teachers and how you're bringing your heart work into this.

[00:16:02.33] For our listeners, I do have a bonus track in the description with my story. And it's in the Teaching With Light book, but you can hear it. And it's called When the Guidance Counselor Told Me No. And it's my story from high school of being told that I couldn't be a teacher. And now I sit before you leading, hosting a podcast. Who would ever think that I was encouraged not to pursue the career that my heart kept telling me I needed to be a teacher?

[00:16:36.00] So I hope you'll listen to that story and hear what it takes for us to follow our hearts because we have to have courage to do the change, to do the poem in front of the class, to leave the safety of a classroom and be a district wide leader when you think what you're doing and then you don't. And then you're there.

[00:16:58.12] So following our heart isn't always an easy thing. So I'm going to ask the listeners, for homework, why don't you think about what your pivotal story is, how these stories relate to you, and what you have to overcome sometimes to follow your heart? All right, that's enough for homework.

[00:17:17.71] Let's move on to some practical things that our listening audience really likes to embrace. What can we actually do in practice, that take away. What's your-- Brett, I want you to lead with your book. Tell us about this book, this poetry book. How can this help-- why should teachers read it? How will it help students be better writers and not roll their eyes that they're learning about poetry? Give us a little snapshot.

[00:17:48.00] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Right. The book is called Poetry Pauses, and it's about just that, pausing and inserting poetry into the other writing instruction and units that we teach. So it's not primarily a book about how to write better poetry. Just how to how to practice creative writing.

[00:18:04.53] Certainly using the techniques in the book, your students will write more poetry. But the goal is to say, how can saying this poem or writing this poem help me with an argument essay that I'm working on? How can it help me with my revision strategies that I'm working on for any writing? How can it help me with that personal narrative that everybody has to do in this grade level? What can I extract from those poems, and from my experience reading them and writing them that transfers to all of the other writing that school asks me to do, most of which is not poetry?

[00:18:35.15] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All right. So I love the idea, but I need something more concrete. Give me an example of one of the poems that you actually get kids to do. OK.

[00:18:49.29] BRETT VOGELSINGER: So one of the chapters in the book is about persuasive and argument writing. And I think it's really interesting to note that many, many poems take a stand in a way that you can even find a veritable thesis statement in the poem where there's that one line where they sort of like take a stand really strongly.

[00:19:08.76] So one example of that would be a spoken word poem by the poet Guante, When They Look Right Through You. And he's giving-- the poem is framed that he's giving advice to like a new supermarket employee who's responsible for bringing in the carts. And it's talking about really invisible work, right? People who are laboring without being seen or celebrated and not just ignored, but sometimes even treated with derision.

[00:19:31.20] And in this poem, he's sort of taking a stand that and by the by the end, I don't want to spoil the ending-- but like there's a stand he takes at the end and he's built evidence throughout the poem to arrive at that stand. And that's a way of structuring an essay, an argument essay as well.

[00:19:47.20] Other older poems like think of the poem Swift Things are Beautiful by Elizabeth Coatsworth. It's got two sort of stanzas. The first one talks about all these fast things that are beautiful, then all these slow things that are beautiful. And the next stanza, it rhymes. It's very traditional.

[00:20:01.19] But what it's doing is setting up a thesis, Swift Things are Beautiful, and then evidence with all of these other details. And in that evidence, there's music, there's imagery, there's all the things that we hope to find in the best essays, in the best speeches that students are creating for class.

[00:20:18.41] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: So you're teaching teachers? This is professional learning for teachers?

[00:20:24.80] BRETT VOGELSINGER: But it has practical lessons. They could certainly take lessons and transfer them right into their classrooms.

[00:20:29.56] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: To their classrooms. So it is a book. Can you read a stanza from one or both of those or a different poem? I'd like--

[00:20:38.47] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Oh, sure.

[00:20:39.46] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah, let's just hear that. Yes. OK.

[00:20:44.40] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Hold on.

[00:20:44.95] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yeah. I'm just interested in the poetry voice. Because when you tell us how to-- the rationale you've given is a good one. But then hearing the poem itself will illustrate what you're saying.

[00:21:05.60] BRETT VOGELSINGER: This one's pretty short. Swift Things are Beautiful, the poem referenced earlier. This one could be used as an element of argument writing and taking a stand with evidence, but it can also be used in teaching some grammar skills, which is another chapter in the book. So let me read it to you and then I'll explain what I mean. It's pretty short.

[00:21:23.78] Swift Things are Beautiful by Elizabeth Coatsworth.

[00:21:26.50] Swift things are beautiful

[00:21:28.09] Swallows and deer

[00:21:29.35] And lightning that falls bright veined and clear

[00:21:32.20] Rivers and meteors

[00:21:33.64] Wind in the wheat

[00:21:34.79] The strong withered horse

[00:21:36.29] The runners sure feet

[00:21:37.93] And slow things are beautiful

[00:21:39.85] The close of the day

[00:21:41.48] The pause of the wave that curves downward to spray

[00:21:44.89] The ember that crumbles

[00:21:46.81] The opening flower

[00:21:48.49] And the ox that moves on in the quiet of power

[00:21:54.29] So--

[00:21:55.61] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow. I love it.

[00:21:57.38] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Thanks.

[00:21:58.52] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Well, the images. Yeah, the images come through very clearly in poetry, like Mary Oliver and Billy Collins. I'm not a poet by any means, but I feel it when--

[00:22:12.29] VOGELSINGER: It's not just that. That's what I love about--

[00:22:14.97] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes.

[00:22:15.97] BRETT VOGELSINGER: OK. The first line of each stanza takes a stand, and then it uses these details-- sometimes surprising details. We don't usually think of an ox as beautiful. We don't always think of a strong, withered horse as beautiful. But how does she find the beauty in those things and sort of craft an argument around that?

[00:22:32.13] But what's also cool about it, there's some great examples of parallel structure in those lines as well and anaphora, so we get the repeated grammatical structure and practice with that as well. And you could totally ignore the fact that there's a little bit of argument and just focus on the grammar of that poem. Either way, it fits into a unit that you're already teaching.

[00:22:53.04] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Already doing-- so you're integrating. I love that. But my reaction to this, did you know about any of this? [LAUGHS] Teaching with poetry in a different way. It's not just-- it's like enhanced learning. It's a whole new idea for me that Brett's introducing. I love it. What's your reaction?

[00:23:16.76] MEG ROA: Well, of course, my background is literacy, right? And so I'm in love with this conversation already. I love this approach 100%. Yes, I've heard the poem, but not in a very long time. I just love the fact that the connection between the practicality and the skills you're trying to develop in your students is-- and you're connecting it back to poetry. You're giving them a purpose and a reason for reading that poetry with that and then also giving them that exposure as well.

[00:23:54.03] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Wow. Thank you. Thank you for that. So what's your-- I want you to share, Meg, what you're doing currently right now, like the projects you're overseeing, and mentoring, induction, and then maybe share some practical advice that you're giving to your mentors and novice teachers. But let's have our audience hear what you're overseeing in your County.

[00:24:17.91] MEG ROA: Sure. I guess I want to start with saying that the idea of teacher voice-- and I'm going to use the word exploiting it-- is really important to me. That's something that resonates with me and really gives me vision for different things that I have the opportunity of overseeing and sharing that. Like, now, Brett is-- and I talk about de-privatizing our practice. Brett has done that in a monumental way-- sharing this through his book.

[00:24:54.59] But I also think about that as like how do we get teachers to genuinely share their practice with one another? And so that's been my guiding light through the Volusia Leads, which is the teacher leadership group that I was fortunate enough to oversee through some opportunities provided by one of our educational nonprofit organizations. And so through that work, we've developed a-- incorporated into the new teacher academy our Volusia Mentors Program, which is using Carol's book, The Mentoring Action and First Year Matters as the main foundational resources.

[00:25:38.31] And the whole idea behind that is that that mentoring program is a collaboration between our expert teachers, not our-- career teachers and our novice teachers. Not one or the other is the lead-- that they're really genuinely coming together through a variety of ways-- whether it be group mentoring, observing one another in their classroom, planning together, all of those ways that we can bring our newest colleagues into the fold of our world with the best support system that we can so that we then retain them. So they feel that connection. They were building relationships, and it's grounded in expert practice.

[00:26:24.86] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Right. And I love the way you've integrated the well being. You actually were one of my first districts to sponsor a Circle of Light, where teacher voices were highlighted. And I know some of the quotes and feedback that you got, where teachers just could tell the truth about how hard it is, but they could share their light or hear somebody else's light and spark themselves again.

[00:26:54.56] And you've done a lot to bring mentoring to the forefront to retain teachers, and I think the way that you've approached it is putting that teacher in the central focus, so that they can help students, so they can feel joyful. And it all happened because you had the courage to leave the classroom and influence a wide group of people. Brett, what's your reaction to that? I don't know what your experience in your district is with mentoring and induction. How does this relate to your situation?

[00:27:32.61] BRETT VOGELSINGER: One thing I like when I hear you talk about it, Meg, is that it sounds organic and natural in that sometimes I feel like these connections end up being forced. Like someone read a book, and the book said, do these five things, and we're going to do them by the book. And what you're describing is a little bit different. It's a little bit valuing what teachers are saying they need.

[00:27:56.70] It's valuing what teachers are willing to give, and helping them to be willing to share even more. Maybe even trusting that what they have is worth sharing. Because I think that's something I hear from you as well. Is that they can sense that you believe that what they have is worth sharing. And that goes a long way at a time when the teaching profession has come under fire.

[00:28:17.85] MEG ROA: Yeah. You have no idea how much that means to me that you got that message out of just these few minutes of conversation because that really ties in above me. It's exactly what I believe in. I've been trying to foster through the new teacher academy, and the mentoring, and bringing those novice teachers and career teachers together in a really meaningful, intentional way.

[00:28:42.97] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Well, clearly both of you are inspired educators, and sometimes our lights get dim. So how do you keep your light on, teaching with light, or following your heart, and these social and emotional skill sets that we need as teachers? It isn't just about the book and the content. So what do you do to keep that human side going, Brett? What do you enjoy that our listeners can relate to?

[00:29:19.55] BRETT VOGELSINGER: There's a number of things that keep me going if I'm being honest, but I'll share one.

[00:29:23.42] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Right.

[00:29:24.46] BRETT VOGELSINGER: One is gardening. It's a hobby that I've had since childhood. I remember planting, digging up different plants around the yard, like weeds around the yard.

[00:29:34.58] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK. OK.

[00:29:36.60] BRETT VOGELSINGER: So like, it's been with me for a long time, but I think part of why that feeds my inspiration as a teacher is because it's another place in a different way that I'm working with growth-- that I'm working with something where you put a lot into it, but then it gives to you as well, whether that's in the form of beauty or food. And I think it just gets my hands dirty, my body active, all those things which can help me--

[00:30:03.34] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And it's mindfulness. It's like a mindful way of being. What's your favorite thing to plant? So you got vegetables-- what's the vegetable that you like to eat? Shelter?

[00:30:15.31] BRETT VOGELSINGER: --tomatoes.

[00:30:16.00] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Tomatoes, so who is eating those tomatoes?

[00:30:18.14] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I can tell you a two-second story about my favorite plant.

[00:30:21.27] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK. OK.

[00:30:22.13] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I got a plant one time on the Lowe's Clearance for a dollar, and the lady made fun of me buying it because she's like, that thing is dead. And it's this huge shrub in my back yard that flowers prolifically every year.

[00:30:33.16] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, my God. OK. I see that plant as the student with the eye roll. And at the end of the year, it's writing poetry.

[00:30:41.56] [LAUGHTER]

[00:30:43.46] Yeah. We can make that connection. One thing that I like to do, I thought I was going to retire and not do any mentoring anymore, and then I did yoga teacher training. So after the 200-hour training, what I fell in love with was yoga for your hands. And they're called hand mudras, and there's hundred of them. And I integrate them when I have the courage to teach the workshops and so forth.

[00:31:11.36] So I have one as a bonus track. In this podcast, there'll be a link. I want you two to try it. And I filmed all of them outside. So the filming of this two-minute mudra for your hands was in the Azores. I was in San Miguel, and it was my first film, and I was like, you know what? I think I'm just going to take my phone and do a mudra. But it gave me so much joy, and now, I'm just sharing it out. So that's what I like to do to stay inspired-- be creative and create in different ways. So Meg, what about you? What inspires you?

[00:31:51.86] MEG ROA: So when I first came to the district-- and remember, we were talking about some innovative ways to bring messages and professional learning to teachers. We did a district wide, and our district has I think at the time maybe 6,500 teachers. And so we did the John Gordon's one word. And just a quick overview of that is at the beginning of the year, we all make resolutions, and I think it says by the end of January, 88% of us have forgotten them or-- and we feel guilty in everything.

[00:32:32.21] So his approach is think about your life. Like, where are you in your life at that-- what are the different things that are happening personally, professionally, and where do you want to be? And what's the one word that-- when you get stuck or when you need motivation, what's the one word that will really guide you to where you want to be? So choose one word to focus on throughout the year, and come back to that.

[00:32:56.30] And so we did that district wide, I don't know-- six, seven, eight years ago. And I have continued to do that with my family, and I incorporated that this year into our best self, which is our wellness program that's incorporated into the new teacher academy. And then we saw some of our new teachers then did it with their students in the classroom.

[00:33:19.12] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Love it. Love it. What's your word? What's your word?

[00:33:22.42] MEG ROA: Well, let me-- I'll tell you.

[00:33:24.05] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK.

[00:33:24.49] MEG ROA: Again, a two-second story. So the first year I picked a word. The second year, I really was like, what's my word going to be? And I couldn't figure it out. I went back to my dove quote, and the word in there was spark, right? And I said, well, I can't just spark new learning. I need to cultivate new learning too. So I made up my own word, and I called it spark of eight. So that was then like--

[00:33:48.00] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, right-- spark of eight. I love it. And that's what you're doing with your novice teachers. I love it. I love it. So for our listeners, it's John Gordon. They can just search it on the internet and find out how to do that with themselves or their students. Brett, have you done this? Have you heard of this before?

[00:34:08.44] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I have. There's a teacher in my former school that does that every year. So you see all the--

[00:34:12.28] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh!

[00:34:13.27] BRETT VOGELSINGER: She sort of wallpapers the wall with them.

[00:34:15.45] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, with all the words. So that's poetry in action, right? Yeah.

[00:34:21.10] MEG ROA: The idea is to share it with others so that you have like that collaboration, accountability, and building relationships, and connections.

[00:34:28.96] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Right. Spark of eight-- I love it. All right. We're winding down. Thank you both for being on this podcast. A great launch. Love the conversation. So as we wind down, I just want to say a little bit to our listening audience about change. Some teachers love change. Some people hate change, but here's the deal. Things are changing.

[00:34:49.87] Just as Brett talked about, he changed grade level after 10 years. He changed the way he wanted to introduce his class with a poem. Meg went from the classroom to the district and is in a different district role, but I think it's important for us to pause for a minute and think about how our thinking changes. Like, just taking that moment-- like, uh, I used to think this, but now, I think this. So Brett, what did you use to think about teaching or anything? What did you use to? Go ahead.

[00:35:31.62] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I used to think that extroverted students were the most engaged students in the room, and now, I think there's all sorts of ways to show engagement. And sometimes that very introverted student is the most engaged in your room.

[00:35:46.26] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you for saying that. Thank you. And we could say the same for teachers. [LAUGHS]

[00:35:52.35] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Yeah.

[00:35:52.89] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you. Meg, what did you use to think, and now, what do you think?

[00:35:59.06] MEG ROA: I used to think that novice teachers and experienced teachers had vastly different needs, and now, I think that they are more similar than we know. We all want to feel supported. We all want a connection to our work, and we all want to be heard.

[00:36:18.72] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Well, thank you for that, and you're doing that with the way you're integrating all of these wellness activities and appreciation for that collaborative conversation with the novices that the mentors-- we're moved. I used to think it was directed mentoring. If you were just a great teacher, and you knew how to do everything, that you'd be a great mentor and make that novice into a novice that would just copy everything.

[00:36:45.55] But it really is what Brett's even talking about with his students-- that sometimes our quieter, beginning teachers are thinking, and they're collaborating with their mentors. And it really is a co-created experience, as a school is-- as a school is. We all learn from each other. So I like to close the podcast with some good news.

[00:37:09.90] John Krasinski created a YouTube video. You can watch them still-- YouTube called Some Good News. And I was obsessed with hearing Some Good News, so I watched it every day. So what do we need to say out loud for everyone to hear that's positive? We always are talking about the challenges and the negative. Let's give some weight to what's positive. So Brett, what do you want to celebrate? Share. Tell us about stuff that's working with your book. So what?

[00:37:46.33] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I'm going to bring up a thorny topic at the last second, but--

[00:37:49.15] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK. Thorny? We like thorny.

[00:37:51.28] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I think AI has everyone's attention right now--

[00:37:52.95] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Ooh, it does.

[00:37:54.13] BRETT VOGELSINGER: There are enthusiasts over the top, and there are some people, who are doomsayers and think this is the end of writing. I have been-- I would like to say I've had some really positive experiences talking to kids about their experiences with it, as we all are beginners at this together. I'm not saying I'm an enthusiast. I'm not a doomsayer.

[00:38:17.18] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: OK. OK.

[00:38:18.30] BRETT VOGELSINGER: I love talking to kids, and I feel hopeful that there are things we can learn about the human voice in writing because this technology exists. So I'm intrigued and exploring that right now.

[00:38:31.57] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: All right. I want to ask you. I'm going to dig in a little deeper. Is there any student that eye rolling or student that comes to mind or a class that you taught with your poetry that comes to mind as a celebratory acknowledgment of the positive? Anything in there?

[00:38:52.30] BRETT VOGELSINGER: Yeah, definitely. Each year-- this happens at the end of every year-- some student that you didn't know was enjoying that routine will come to you and say, I'm really going to miss it, or write it in their year end review and tell you-- and it happened this year again, even with older students. And then you also get the-- hey, I just want to tell you, I really like rhyming poetry, and you don't seem to like it very much. Could you do more of that next year? I take that as a positive too. Like, that speaks to, like, I could have enjoyed it more, but it's also telling me that they were tuning in and noticing the patterns and thinking about it.

[00:39:27.13] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Oh, wow. That's definitely worth celebrating. And Meg, what about you? What's some good news?

[00:39:36.95] MEG ROA: The thing I am most excited about right now is connected to two things I think I mentioned earlier about Volusia Leads, the teacher leadership organization that I've been overseeing and our new teacher academy. So we just started a new teacher leadership pathway for all novice teachers and second year teachers in our district. And the idea is that they'll continue on this journey and timeline, where they'll work together in cohorts and grow their teacher voice while they're growing their teacher practice through collaboration with others.

[00:40:14.49] And our Volusia Leads teacher leaders are helping them, and mentoring them, and being a part of that. And so we have 40 of our year two and year three teachers, who opted into this pathway. And we had our summer academy, and it was just the most exciting, full of energy, week of learning with all of these experienced and newer teachers, who will grow into this teacher leadership pathway for our district and for education really.

[00:40:47.78] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Yes, for the whole profession. I think what you're doing is really important because a lot of times we have our novices wait until they've taught for like five, 10, 15 years, and then you can become a leader. And it was that developmental continuum. But I think they're ready. They want to be leaders right away, and this is a way to retain teachers in the district because it engages them, as we've all been talking about.

[00:41:18.27] What's engagement? Do I want a rhyming poem? That student was engaged because he knew he wanted something different. Yeah. I wish you had another little poem. Do you have a couple of lines, Brett?

[00:41:33.98] BRETT VOGELSINGER: All right, so I can close with the poem that I told you I open every year with. I'll be using it again soon enough, but this--

[00:41:39.99] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: And this is the opening of the school year, so this is perfect. Everybody can use that in their own classrooms. Let's hear it.

[00:41:46.50] BRETT VOGELSINGER: "Invitation by Shel Silverstein--" "If you were a dreamer, come in. If you were a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, a hoper, a prayer, a magic bean buyer. If you're a pretender, come and sit by my fire. For we have some flax golden tales to spin. Come in. Come in."

[00:42:09.00] CAROL PELLETIER RADFORD: Thank you, Brett. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And to our listeners, just a reminder, remember to stay inspired, stay healthy, and don't forget to share your good news. I want to thank you, Brett and Meg. What a great launch, season three. Follow your heart, and I hope our audience can join us for episode two, which is titled Lesson Two-- Bloom Where You're Planted. All right. I'll see you all next time.

[00:42:40.73] [MUSIC PLAYING]

[00:42:41.84] ANNOUNCER: Thanks, everyone, for joining today's Teacher to Teacher conversation. We hope this time together energized you, inspired you, and reminded you why you chose to become a teacher. You can purchase any of Carol's books and any books mentioned in the podcast online at www.corwin.com. Please leave a review, and share this podcast with your colleagues. Thank you for listening to the Corwin Teacher to Teacher podcast-- a place to share teacher wisdom and engage in authentic conversations with experienced educators.